Nuno Out

[northbankfrank]

2,500 posts by the end of the season?

[zico]

Interesting especially when you hear some people say you get more space and time in the PL because they just close you down and kick you in the Championship.  Maybe that's changed in recent years as the powers that be have changed rules to move towards a non contact sport!  I think Summerville could be a very good player, with the right coaching.  If he improved his finishing, last ball and decision making he would be decent.  That's called coaching.

[southbankbornnbred]

That's not to say that he can't, btw. But he - like many others in our squad - needs to add more quality and consistency to his game.

[southbankbornnbred]

JWP is a really strange one.  Play golf with a mate who supports Southampton and he was gutted to lose JWP saying even in relegation season he shone in a poor Southampton team.  He was really surprised to see him bombed out at West Ham, and was baffled watching MOTD why someone like Guido Rodriguez was playing ahead of him, which is a fair point.  Certainly he never showed much when he was playing for us, but can the same be said for other players where some do well at other clubs then become total misfits at West Ham?  We certainly have form for it. After all Summerville was named Leeds Players’ Player of the Season for the 2023/24 with 18 goals and nine assists across all competitions from 43 matches played.  Is the gulf really that big from the Championship to the PL or is it that West Ham curse when good players turn to shit?

On the Summerville point the answer is simple: yes, it's a big - often huge - gulf between playing in the Championship and playing against the best of the Premier League.

There's a huge difference between tearing the full-backs from Rotherham, Huddersfield, Birmingham, Sheffield Wednesday and Plymouth to shreds every week...and then going up against the top 15 sides in the Premier League, with their international full-backs.

The Championship is a decent level league, and we'll have a battle on our hands to get out of it next season - because we'll lose our best players. But it's not a patch on the Premier League, as so many sides and players have shown. So far, Summerville has not made the leap.

[zico]

JWP is a really strange one.  Play golf with a mate who supports Southampton and he was gutted to lose JWP saying even in relegation season he shone in a poor Southampton team.  He was really surprised to see him bombed out at West Ham, and was baffled watching MOTD why someone like Guido Rodriguez was playing ahead of him, which is a fair point.  Certainly he never showed much when he was playing for us, but can the same be said for other players where some do well at other clubs then become total misfits at West Ham?  We certainly have form for it. After all Summerville was named Leeds Players’ Player of the Season for the 2023/24 with 18 goals and nine assists across all competitions from 43 matches played.  Is the gulf really that big from the Championship to the PL or is it that West Ham curse when good players turn to shit?

[BoleynGone]

Rossal as relieved as anyone to him not playing but to be totally frozen out quite ridiculous especially when Irving and Rodriguez played. Now Irving is frozen out. Rodriguez stays. Soucek not playing then thrown in and he looked shot after 75 minutes.Still he played on. Expect Irving to start against QPR,probably the same for Igor. None of what this clown does makes sense. The lack of subs is quite extraordinary. The only times he uses them is ultra defensive moves. nothing attacking that's why he won't change. I still see the look on Wilson's face when he got subbed against Bournemouth,astonishment like all of us.
Just get rid of this Crackhead Clown now

[Russ of the BML]

Year after year you see teams that do not have household names and do not have players with status doing very well in the PL. Generally you will note that these clubs have a number of fundamental things:

1) A very good coach
2) A dynamic recruitment system
3) A playing style and ethos (from youth to senior)
4) A modern and current management structure
5) A good relationship between coach and management team

Its not rocket science. The coach is selected based on his coaching ability which shows the style and hits the data the management team want. The coach is interviewed and demonstrates that he understands and buys into the playing style and ethos. The recruitment system is designed around the playing style and ethos and so players are brought in that demonstrate that they play to that style by hitting the data. Recruitment, coaching and results are openly discussed and reviewed by coach and management team and adaptions are made to suit. 

Point is, its a whole system from 1 to 5. No fractures. No separation. No individualism. Full disclosure and transparency from top to bottom. All singing from the same song book and all rowing in the same direction. 

Look at Bournemouth, Brentford, Fulham, Sunderland, Brighton, even Palace to an extent. Clubs that have adapted to the modern football landscape. Clubs that have developed modern philosophies by employing young and dynamic management teams who use data and modern financial methods to navigate lower budgets, lower gates and FFP to maintain solid PL status, financial stability and also play a positive and progressive style of football. 

West Ham under Sullivan are:

1) Poor / Average coaches
2) No recruitment system
3) No playing style / ethos
4) An aging and out of touch management system
5) Poor relationships between coach and management team

We are a plane that has been losing fuel for miles and miles. And now we are too far out to sea to glide it to land. It was always going to crash. 

[southbankbornnbred]

Would never claim it's good, that we all agree on. Just there's a lot more that can be seriously squeezed out of it when a Manager isn't playing players in totally different positions they're not used to playing in. Or worse left on the Bench or even banished from a Matchday Squad altogether.

I didn't bring up the money either. Focussed on ability.

*Looks over in Ward-Prowse and now Wilsons direction left dumped in the lost property box*

Anyone looking for either a fit and available set-piece specialist and a Premier League goalscoring specialist?

 

 

I get you - and agree with you about Wilson. You know football.

Although I wouldn't hold a candle to Ward-Prowse. He has played 57 games for us and, genuinely, I can't recall him having a match where I thought: "We've bought a player here". He has been extremely poor for a £30m signing - and that's happened too often with other players who cost big fees or wages: Kilman, Alvarez, Rodridguez (wages), Fullkrug, Todibo, Mavrapanos, Magassa, Guilherme, Summerville, Hermandsen (who might need some therapy after his start). It's a long list of overpaid underachievers.

Which is why we are where we are. M&S can describe the ingredients however they like. But the proof of the pudding is always in the eating.

[Mad Dog]

Which Squad is better than our Squad of players man for man out of Burnley, Sunderland and Leeds? 

I think Sunderland's squad is better than ours, man for man... but they did spend over £150m... and very well

And I would say that Leeds' squad is better balanced if not better man for man

I dont know enough about Burnley 

Fair enough. I personally wouldn't swap our Squad with any of them. I could happily pick and choose between them all on an individual basis but if offered any of the Squads, I would have picked ours. Two of those promoted Teams are currently overachieving and Burnley about just where they should be. We are underperforming to the point it's beyond embarrassing. 

I don't think we're underperforming.  I think we're fucking shit and getting we deserve, and its all down to sullivan's incompetence

[threesixty]

I'd have and play Wilson from the start regularly (not this in and out the side shit) over any of them. As long as he avoided picking up an injury which I personally believe he would have on the evidence so far not breaking down or picking up an injury thus far after 800 mins he would have regularly found the net more than any of them.

He's scored 4 without even trying or given much rhythm to regularly play so I think it's fair to expect him to deliver far more than 4 goals that he already has on limited bitty run outs. In the end this prat chose to trust Fullkrug and Paqueta up front 4 games in long before he gave him a go available every single time but overlooked until injury forced his hand.

Then after playing Wilson regularly from the start of games we then would have leaned on Fullkrug and other Forwards to chip in with goals etc which I'd have over them.

My frustration is we can't complain too much as a Club for not having a decent Striker regularly starting when we've wilfully kept overlooking him. Others are welcome to believe he is about to break down at any minute if they wish but I just don't believe he would have and has desperately wanted to play more not less. That's just 1 position.



 

 

 

 

 

My caveat with Wilson is that why go on a pay as play contract if you’re generally quite fit and can prove it? I don’t think we know the whole story. It’s not making any sense. I’m guessing there may be a medical/insurance thing at play that means it’s hard for him to get a permanent contract. I can’t understand any PL player at his level accepting the deal he did. 

and also, why won’t West Ham enhance the deal to make it worth his while. We paid Ings a fortune to do fuck all for years and be 3rd/4th choose or whatever. I’m sure we could afford Wilson. It doesn’t make any sense. 

[Rossal]

Wasn't fussed about JWP being frozen out as he was dogshit this season.  But what was weird was the use of Irving and Guido over him......guess thats the state of our squad the first few months of season.

Letting Alvarez go on loan was a howler, cheers Potter 

[Mad Ferret]

How’s he’s had Potts starting games but JWP not even making the squad is a joke in itself.

[Metroplex]

Not really, it's just about common sense. It was daft to have him starting every game no matter what, just as its daft to completely exclude him from everything. 

[twoleftfeet]

It’s funny how a players stock rises when he isn’t playing. 3 months ago there was nothing but hatred for JWP and everyone wanted him dropped. Nuno drops him and now some of you are lamenting his lack of game time , let’s just remember how average he was.

[onsideman]

Would never claim it's good, that we all agree on. Just there's a lot more that can be seriously squeezed out of it when a Manager isn't playing players in totally different positions they're not used to playing in. Or worse left on the Bench or even banished from a Matchday Squad altogether.

I didn't bring up the money either. Focussed on ability.

*Looks over in Ward-Prowse and now Wilsons direction left dumped in the lost property box*

Anyone looking for either a fit and available set-piece specialist and a Premier League goalscoring specialist?

 

 

To be fair, JWP was originally cast out by your mate.

Then he brought in Rodriguez

This month will obviously show who, if anyone, values his attributes 

[goose]

Is that a joke Manny?

[Manuel]

I don't have much to base this on, but I would not be unhappy if Nuno stays on for next season. Yes, results have been shocking for him thus far, but is he really a shit manager? I would doubt it. He also seems to have a determined character and sees himself as a winner and think would give everything to get us back up first time around. It also means we don't have to start again hiring someone new.

Gut tells me the owners and Nuno have agreed they are in for the long haul and will spend this window and the coming months moulding his squad for next season. I fancy Nuno can see and appreciate what a big club we are, with great fans, and wants to be 'one of us'. All IMO of course.

[Massive Attack]

Would never claim it's good, that we all agree on. Just there's a lot more that can be seriously squeezed out of it when a Manager isn't playing players in totally different positions they're not used to playing in. Or worse left on the Bench or even banished from a Matchday Squad altogether.

I didn't bring up the money either. Focussed on ability.

*Looks over in Ward-Prowse and now Wilsons direction left dumped in the lost property box*

Anyone looking for either a fit and available set-piece specialist and a Premier League goalscoring specialist?

[southbankbornnbred]

I wouldn’t say our players are invariably better than theirs.

Some of our players are. Several of our players are worse than their first choices.

That’s the issue with our recruitment. It has been terrible and we’ve massively overspent on poor players - the quality of which other sides bought at much cheaper prices.

Which Squad is better than our Squad of players man for man out of Burnley, Sunderland and Leeds? 

I’m not saying they are better - I’m saying that they are as good as us, because we are an over-rated side. Sunderland have a better keeper than us, they have a more dominant centre half than we have and they have a harder working midfield. For example. Sure, we’re stronger than them in some positions (they have nobody as good as Bowen going forward etc).

But don’t make the mistake of thinking that transfer fees equate to quality. Look at Kilman - £40m of utter shite. Ballard has been a better CB, for example. Many of our big signings have not really done it yet - Fernandes or Magassa have had worse seasons than Xhaka, for example.

I think Sunderland are bang average and might suffer from second season syndrome.

But we do not have a good squad.

[Massive Attack]

Then we could get on to Bowen if he was managed right, not constantly played in a very defensive Team set-up afraid to attack who has goals galore in him waiting to burst out.

He is a serious quality player who pisses all over most Squads alternatives. Sadly the Nuno Effect has sucked the life out the poor cսnt that we easily forget just what a talent he is - managing just 4 goals under this wally wasting him.

Any of those 3 Squads would be in dream world to have him in theirs to call upon and they must wonder what the fuck we're playing at wasting his ability like we have, often played up top out of position sometimes at Wilsons expense even though he's shit at it.

[Massive Attack]

I'd have and play Wilson from the start regularly (not this in and out the side shit) over any of them. As long as he avoided picking up an injury which I personally believe he would have on the evidence so far not breaking down or picking up an injury thus far after 800 mins he would have regularly found the net more than any of them.

He's scored 4 without even trying or given much rhythm to regularly play so I think it's fair to expect him to deliver far more than 4 goals that he already has on limited bitty run outs. In the end this prat chose to trust Fullkrug and Paqueta up front 4 games in long before he gave him a go available every single time but overlooked until injury forced his hand.

Then after playing Wilson regularly from the start of games we then would have leaned on Fullkrug and other Forwards to chip in with goals etc which I'd have over them.

My frustration is we can't complain too much as a Club for not having a decent Striker regularly starting when we've wilfully kept overlooking him. Others are welcome to believe he is about to break down at any minute if they wish but I just don't believe he would have and has desperately wanted to play more not less. That's just 1 position.
 

[onsideman]

Which Squad is better than our Squad of players man for man out of Burnley, Sunderland and Leeds? 

I think Sunderland's squad is better than ours, man for man... but they did spend over £150m... and very well

And I would say that Leeds' squad is better balanced if not better man for man

I dont know enough about Burnley 

Fair enough. I personally wouldn't swap our Squad with any of them. I could happily pick and choose between them all on an individual basis but if offered any of the Squads, I would have picked ours. Two of those promoted Teams are currently overachieving and Burnley about just where they should be. We are underperforming to the point it's beyond embarrassing. 

Yeah, we're underperforming on a huge scale, but I think it's hard to argue a case for our back 5 versus Sunderland's... man for man... and in Xhaka and Diarra they have the pick of the midfield. Then it just comes down to Brobbey, Myenda and Isador versus (before 2 Jan) Wilson on his lonesome 

[Massive Attack]

I wouldn’t say our players are invariably better than theirs.

Some of our players are. Several of our players are worse than their first choices.

That’s the issue with our recruitment. It has been terrible and we’ve massively overspent on poor players - the quality of which other sides bought at much cheaper prices.

Which Squad is better than our Squad of players man for man out of Burnley, Sunderland and Leeds? 

I think Sunderland's squad is better than ours, man for man... but they did spend over £150m... and very well

And I would say that Leeds' squad is better balanced if not better man for man

I dont know enough about Burnley 

Fair enough. I personally wouldn't swap our Squad with any of them. I could happily pick and choose between them all on an individual basis but if offered any of the Squads, I would have picked ours. Two of those promoted Teams are currently overachieving and Burnley about just where they should be. We are underperforming to the point it's beyond embarrassing. 

[Any Old Iron]

I have one question.  Is there anyone on here who wants to keep Espirito Santo as manager, anyone at all?
I can’t see a single reason why he should not be fired immediately. His record is atrocious and his methodology when it comes to line ups and subs is weird in the extreme. 
He has to go, no matter what it costs Sullivan.
 

[onsideman]

I wouldn’t say our players are invariably better than theirs.

Some of our players are. Several of our players are worse than their first choices.

That’s the issue with our recruitment. It has been terrible and we’ve massively overspent on poor players - the quality of which other sides bought at much cheaper prices.

Which Squad is better than our Squad of players man for man out of Burnley, Sunderland and Leeds? 

I think Sunderland's squad is better than ours, man for man... but they did spend over £150m... and very well

And I would say that Leeds' squad is better balanced if not better man for man

I dont know enough about Burnley 

[Massive Attack]

I wouldn’t say our players are invariably better than theirs.

Some of our players are. Several of our players are worse than their first choices.

That’s the issue with our recruitment. It has been terrible and we’ve massively overspent on poor players - the quality of which other sides bought at much cheaper prices.

Which Squad is better than our Squad of players man for man out of Burnley, Sunderland and Leeds?