Nuno Out

[northbankfrank]

2,500 posts by the end of the season?

[southbankbornnbred]

Where I completely agree with you on the players, is that we have still got a sizeable crop of them who, with the right management and coaching, have serious potential (even if they’re not proven at the highest level yet): Potts, Todibo, Fernandes, Diouf, Scarles etc. 

All of them need a top-class manager and set of coaches to maximise their potential in the way that Bowen has.

Instead, at management level we’ve been served warm diarrhoea through a succession of cheap, unemployed and clueless folk.

 

[southbankbornnbred]

I wouldn’t say our players are invariably better than theirs.

Some of our players are. Several of our players are worse than their first choices.

That’s the issue with our recruitment. It has been terrible and we’ve massively overspent on poor players - the quality of which other sides bought at much cheaper prices.

[Massive Attack]

Something that's bothered me when I keep hearing people say, well Nuno can't really be blamed as he's dealing with a shit Squad that's better suited to the Championship.

The Squad...

Areola - Not a Championship level player 

Wan-Bissaka - Not a Championship level player

Todibo - Not a Championship level player

Diouf - Not a Championship level player

Scarles - Not a Championship level player 

Fernandes - Not a Championship level player

Potts- Not a Championship level player

Soucek - Not a Championship level player

Paqueta - Not a Championship level player 

Bowen - Not a Championship level player

Wilson - Not a Championship level player

Ward-Prowse - Not a Championship level player (who he instantly ostracised for no good reason)

Fullkrug - Not a Championship level player (when he had him to use)


You could even argue that some others aren't either but in the main this Squad as poor as it is, still shouldn't be facing relegation unless it's more to do with how poorly managed it has been by both clueless wankers Potter and Nuno.

And even those questioned about their fitness availability in Wilson and Fullkrug they have been available a lot of the time and we aint really suffered greatly as a Team this season with injuries.

Not withstanding the fact he was also seriously backed with 2 new Forwards at great expense. 

I'm sick of the excuses made for this hopeless hobo who looks more eager to get his next fix off his dealer than to get us any points on the board.

Have to politely disagree with you here, Massive. Five of the guys you’ve listed - Potts, Scarles, Diouf, KWP, and Fernandes - have not “yet” proved themselves to be worthy, weekly Premier League-level starters for a side that is capable of staying in the division.

Its not to say they can’t be. But they have not yet proved themselves at the highest level.

You could make a case for Todibo, but he’s been a huge disappointment realistically.

Of the others you listed, you could make a compelling case for saying three of them are at the stage where the peak of their careers are behind them: Wilson, Fullkrug and Soucek. With two of them, Fullkrug and Wilson, injuries have ravaged them.

A further player on your list - Ward-Prowse - has been bereft of confidence for years has had any positive intent actively coached out of him by a succession of poor managers. Genuinely, I cannot recall the last time the guy played a defence-splitting pass (it was years ago) and he’s certainly never bossed a Premier League game from midfield for West Ham. Ever - even on his best day. Yet we spent £30m on him.

And, of course, you’ve left out the large number of our squad who are more self-evidently not regular Premier League level. I said a year ago that Kilman will never play for a team that finishes in the top 10 in this country. He really won’t - any decent scout will tell you. He can’t run, tackle, jump or head the ball. He’s a relegation battle waiting to happen, and probably more suited to the Championship (but not on his wages!). But you can add Hermansen, Mavrapanos and others.

Bowen, Paqueta and AWB aside (and Paqueta has checked out), we’ve got an almost entire squad of unproven or poor quality players. And no leadership.

We’ve allowed a poor chairman wedded to 20th century ways to appoint a succession of poor managers who’ve spent a lot of money poorly.

And that’s why we will get relegated. Nobody in a position of authority at West Ham currently has the ability to recognise and secure nailed-on Premier League talent. So we won’t be a Premier League team for much longer. This league will do that to you.

To be fair, I didn't mention Walker-Peters, not a fan of his..

The key point I make though is there has been 3 promoted Championship sides that have all either fared much better or in Burnleys case almost matched us than our crop of better players (they are) by comparison. And in both Sunderland and Leeds cases significantly done better compared to our League position and points total right now. That is on the Manager.

[southbankbornnbred]

Something that's bothered me when I keep hearing people say, well Nuno can't really be blamed as he's dealing with a shit Squad that's better suited to the Championship.

The Squad...

Areola - Not a Championship level player 

Wan-Bissaka - Not a Championship level player

Todibo - Not a Championship level player

Diouf - Not a Championship level player

Scarles - Not a Championship level player 

Fernandes - Not a Championship level player

Potts- Not a Championship level player

Soucek - Not a Championship level player

Paqueta - Not a Championship level player 

Bowen - Not a Championship level player

Wilson - Not a Championship level player

Ward-Prowse - Not a Championship level player (who he instantly ostracised for no good reason)

Fullkrug - Not a Championship level player (when he had him to use)


You could even argue that some others aren't either but in the main this Squad as poor as it is, still shouldn't be facing relegation unless it's more to do with how poorly managed it has been by both clueless wankers Potter and Nuno.

And even those questioned about their fitness availability in Wilson and Fullkrug they have been available a lot of the time and we aint really suffered greatly as a Team this season with injuries.

Not withstanding the fact he was also seriously backed with 2 new Forwards at great expense. 

I'm sick of the excuses made for this hopeless hobo who looks more eager to get his next fix off his dealer than to get us any points on the board.

Have to politely disagree with you here, Massive. Five of the guys you’ve listed - Potts, Scarles, Diouf, KWP, and Fernandes - have not “yet” proved themselves to be worthy, weekly Premier League-level starters for a side that is capable of staying in the division.

Its not to say they can’t be. But they have not yet proved themselves at the highest level.

You could make a case for Todibo, but he’s been a huge disappointment realistically.

Of the others you listed, you could make a compelling case for saying three of them are at the stage where the peak of their careers are behind them: Wilson, Fullkrug and Soucek. With two of them, Fullkrug and Wilson, injuries have ravaged them.

A further player on your list - Ward-Prowse - has been bereft of confidence for years has had any positive intent actively coached out of him by a succession of poor managers. Genuinely, I cannot recall the last time the guy played a defence-splitting pass (it was years ago) and he’s certainly never bossed a Premier League game from midfield for West Ham. Ever - even on his best day. Yet we spent £30m on him.

And, of course, you’ve left out the large number of our squad who are more self-evidently not regular Premier League level. I said a year ago that Kilman will never play for a team that finishes in the top 10 in this country. He really won’t - any decent scout will tell you. He can’t run, tackle, jump or head the ball. He’s a relegation battle waiting to happen, and probably more suited to the Championship (but not on his wages!). But you can add Hermansen, Mavrapanos and others.

Bowen, Paqueta and AWB aside (and Paqueta has checked out), we’ve got an almost entire squad of unproven or poor quality players. And no leadership.

We’ve allowed a poor chairman wedded to 20th century ways to appoint a succession of poor managers who’ve spent a lot of money poorly.

And that’s why we will get relegated. Nobody in a position of authority at West Ham currently has the ability to recognise and secure nailed-on Premier League talent. So we won’t be a Premier League team for much longer. This league will do that to you.

[Massive Attack]

If people really want to see what a genuine Championship Team that's just come up compares to our pitiful 14 points in the league, look no further than Burnley on 12 (with a game in hand still), Leeds on 22 and Sunderland on 30 in 8th place fighting for a European place.

Yet we are all to believe we are a Championship Team with no quality whatsoever to call upon and just 14 points after 21 games with no other distractions is to be expected...

The Managers this season have been massively at fault.

[zico]

I don't know if it's difficult with the modern footballer who earns a fortune without actually achieving anything and has everything done for them but many managers today don't seem to have the knack of man management as well as many being tactically inept.  In their defence that must be difficult if others are buying players you don't want.  Never understoond that in the modern game, managers (or head coaches as they are now called) should have carte blanche on who comes in.  I really don't know how you can manage if the players aren't yours.

Ferguson, Clough, O'Neill, Robson and many others in the 70's and 80's all had it in abundance, they knew when a kick up the arse or a cuddle was needed.  I wouldn't particularly say many of them were master tacticians but they knew how to get the best out of players and their recruitment was generally good.

That's where, whether you like him or not, Harry was good at what he did on a budget, (not so much with a few £££'s to spend!)  He could make a player think he was better than he was, and knew how to handle them.  Who else could have got a tune out of Di Canio?  That may be the one weakness Bonzo had in management.  He was such a hard worker, always gave 100% as a player, totally honest and I don''t think he could understand how players couldn't or wouldn't be the same in their commitment. Harry was a kidder, Billy I don't think could ever be like that. 

None of our managers in recent times seem to have that.  I suspect Moyes had their respect but can imagine he probably wouldn't talk to you if you had pissed him off.  Loppy didn't seem to have a clue, Potter just looked too weak and Nuno seems hell bent on alienating anyone.  His demeanour in press conferences doesn't instil confidence, and we have seen with both Wilson and JWP his man management is poor.  He just isn't getting anything out of what he has. 

[Massive Attack]

Something that's bothered me when I keep hearing people say, well Nuno can't really be blamed as he's dealing with a shit Squad that's better suited to the Championship.

The Squad...

Areola - Not a Championship level player 

Wan-Bissaka - Not a Championship level player

Todibo - Not a Championship level player

Diouf - Not a Championship level player

Scarles - Not a Championship level player 

Fernandes - Not a Championship level player

Potts- Not a Championship level player

Soucek - Not a Championship level player

Paqueta - Not a Championship level player 

Bowen - Not a Championship level player

Wilson - Not a Championship level player

Ward-Prowse - Not a Championship level player (who he instantly ostracised for no good reason)

Fullkrug - Not a Championship level player (when he had him to use)


You could even argue that some others aren't either but in the main this Squad as poor as it is, still shouldn't be facing relegation unless it's more to do with how poorly managed it has been by both clueless wankers Potter and Nuno.

And even those questioned about their fitness availability in Wilson and Fullkrug they have been available a lot of the time and we aint really suffered greatly as a Team this season with injuries.

Not withstanding the fact he was also seriously backed with 2 new Forwards at great expense. 

I'm sick of the excuses made for this hopeless hobo who looks more eager to get his next fix off his dealer than to get us any points on the board.

[Massive Attack]

No word of him being sacked today. How shit do we have to be for him to lose his job?

Last I heard on SSN is West Ham are considering offering him a new improved contract for doing such an impressive job since he arrived. He has their full backing and sympathies for the job he's had to take on and see no issue kissing and hugging the opposition players he used to manage barely months ago grinning like a Cheshire cսnt straight after another loss at Home. Nor do they mind seeing him skulking down the tunnel like a coward straight away against Wolves only days earlier in a thumping loss to the worst Team to play in the Premier League. Even though by his own admittance he was bothered himself he did that.

No win in 10 consecutive games and 0 clean sheets at all for the defensive coaching mastermind.

[goose]

No word of him being sacked today. How shit do we have to be for him to lose his job?

[Mad Ferret]

Muelensteen’s daughter

[Massive Attack]

[Figgieham1]

Just read an article where Harry Redknapp said he would go into West Ham and manage for free!

[eusebiovic]

What i find astonishing is that under FOUR managers in a row and virtually a completely different XI from Moyes to Nuno, the football has been the same.

With the ball- Slow, sideways, backwards, fuck all movement, players getting isolated, not working the opposition, easy to contain. Never creating overloads, no one seeming comfortable, panicking and misplacing passes, hoofing it hopefully forward. Totally unable to beat or move round a press

Without the ball- passive, retreating, meek, backpedalling, inviting the opposition to dominate territory and possession. Not pressing, slow to react

How is that even possible through four managers and virtually a whole new squad? To still be that way? The only outfield players still here who are big contributors now (and were under Moyes) are Bowen, Paqueta and arguably Mavropanos

You describe us very well. 

But in answer to your question, I would suggest the answer is simpler than you think. And that is that all four coaches were not very good and have fallen way below the standard of coaching required to be competitive in the PL (maybe?)

 

I agree with regard to Lop and Potter- especially Potter who as it turns out was entirely emperors new clothes and Lop had no pedigree here despite winning things in his managerial career, but Nuno has done some rather good things with Wolves and Forest, so there IS or WAS something there and he understands how to have some success at more than one club. This one is most baffling how it's just crumbled. It doesn't make sense on the face of it. 

But I do also generally agree that constantly doing managers on the cheap is a recipe for disaster. It sort of feeds my belief that Sullivan thinks it's still in 90s in that any collection of players loosely labelled as 'midfield' or 'striker' can do a job anywhere in that area of the pitch if they look the part and have a large price tag whereas the game has evolved so much tactically and every position on the pitch is basically a specialist role, it's a jigsaw fitting them together, and a collection of players that 'look good' individually don't make a good team. Just like I believe he still thinks a manager is a Mike Bassett type role and it is still that simple and primitive, and he doesn't understand how finances need to work in the modern game with balancing the books on players especially when you don't have an endless pot of money- as we do not.

I have always suspected that most of the sheer waste in transfer resources and wages is simply down to this.

It reminds me of Peter Swales at Man City in 1979 when he gave Malcolm Allison a blank chequebook. They were signing players left, right and centre for at least half a million quid and less than a year later were binning them off for a small fraction of the original fee.

I don't think Sullivan has learnt anything since buying Birmingham in 1993. He is a stubborn old fucker who won't listen to any advice because he obviously knows everything.

Even worse, since David Gold died he is now flapping about like an octopus about to be boiled alive because he was clearly the diplomatic one in their business partnership who could smooth out any disagreements. That's not saying much tbh but I really do think he's all at sea without his old mucker.

[Massive Attack]

Sullivan doesn't understand what all the fuss is about and is today preferring to concentrate on spending another £45M on more Mendes/Nuno dodgy deals..

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... inless-run



The dopey cսnt deserves relegation. 

[El Scorchio]

What i find astonishing is that under FOUR managers in a row and virtually a completely different XI from Moyes to Nuno, the football has been the same.

With the ball- Slow, sideways, backwards, fuck all movement, players getting isolated, not working the opposition, easy to contain. Never creating overloads, no one seeming comfortable, panicking and misplacing passes, hoofing it hopefully forward. Totally unable to beat or move round a press

Without the ball- passive, retreating, meek, backpedalling, inviting the opposition to dominate territory and possession. Not pressing, slow to react

How is that even possible through four managers and virtually a whole new squad? To still be that way? The only outfield players still here who are big contributors now (and were under Moyes) are Bowen, Paqueta and arguably Mavropanos

You describe us very well. 

But in answer to your question, I would suggest the answer is simpler than you think. And that is that all four coaches were not very good and have fallen way below the standard of coaching required to be competitive in the PL (maybe?)

 

 

I agree with regard to Lop and Potter- especially Potter who as it turns out was entirely emperors new clothes and Lop had no pedigree here despite winning things in his managerial career, but Nuno has done some rather good things with Wolves and Forest, so there IS or WAS something there and he understands how to have some success at more than one club. This one is most baffling how it's just crumbled. It doesn't make sense on the face of it. 

But I do also generally agree that constantly doing managers on the cheap is a recipe for disaster. It sort of feeds my belief that Sullivan thinks it's still in 90s in that any collection of players loosely labelled as 'midfield' or 'striker' can do a job anywhere in that area of the pitch if they look the part and have a large price tag whereas the game has evolved so much tactically and every position on the pitch is basically a specialist role, it's a jigsaw fitting them together, and a collection of players that 'look good' individually don't make a good team. Just like I believe he still thinks a manager is a Mike Bassett type role and it is still that simple and primitive, and he doesn't understand how finances need to work in the modern game with balancing the books on players especially when you don't have an endless pot of money- as we do not.

[Russ of the BML]

My take on it - Beyond all what has mostly been said. We were unlucky with critical moments, officiating and rub of the green. And we have been unlucky generally in that all season. But in my anger and frustration in this - I am compelled to accept that you make your own luck. And if you play so defensively, so deep, so nervously and you simply concede the opposition the ball, with time and with no press or urgency, then you allow them to create chances. You allow them to put in say, 25 crosses per game, rather than say, 10. If you allow your opponent to probe and clip so many through balls into the area, sooner or later, something will give. Something will go wrong. Because you are creating an environment for things to go wrong.

Look at the Brighton game, their equaliser was a freak. Should've been a free kick for high foot and the offside situation was a farce as we were punished for Areola making a save. But all that came after we allowed Brighton almost 20 minutes of constant pressure. 

Not once this season under Potter or Nuno have I seen us control the tempo of a game. Control the possession and condense the pitch to suit us and then expand it to suit us. Everything we do is reactive and in response to what the opponent is doing. Like a boxer, you stick your chin out too many times and you get clocked. 

In the last eight games, we have been unlucky in places, but I have never once seen Nuno screaming at them to get up the pitch. Never once seen him screaming to hold the ball and retain possession. Never once seen a formation that allows defence to transition into a meaningful attack. We are nervous, naive and look completely incapable of winning any match over 90 mins with and without the ball.

That comes from the coach. 

[Dirty Den]

Alan Pardew can see the problems like the rest of us, why can't Nuno....

[fraser]

What i find astonishing is that under FOUR managers in a row and virtually a completely different XI from Moyes to Nuno, the football has been the same.

With the ball- Slow, sideways, backwards, fuck all movement, players getting isolated, not working the opposition, easy to contain. Never creating overloads, no one seeming comfortable, panicking and misplacing passes, hoofing it hopefully forward. Totally unable to beat or move round a press

Without the ball- passive, retreating, meek, backpedalling, inviting the opposition to dominate territory and possession. Not pressing, slow to react

How is that even possible through four managers and virtually a whole new squad? To still be that way? The only outfield players still here who are big contributors now (and were under Moyes) are Bowen, Paqueta and arguably Mavropanos

You describe us very well. 

But in answer to your question, I would suggest the answer is simpler than you think. And that is that all four coaches were not very good and have fallen way below the standard of coaching required to be competitive in the PL (maybe?)

Yep when your recruitment plan is recently failed managers, you get managers who fail. 

[Russ of the BML]

What i find astonishing is that under FOUR managers in a row and virtually a completely different XI from Moyes to Nuno, the football has been the same.

With the ball- Slow, sideways, backwards, fuck all movement, players getting isolated, not working the opposition, easy to contain. Never creating overloads, no one seeming comfortable, panicking and misplacing passes, hoofing it hopefully forward. Totally unable to beat or move round a press

Without the ball- passive, retreating, meek, backpedalling, inviting the opposition to dominate territory and possession. Not pressing, slow to react

How is that even possible through four managers and virtually a whole new squad? To still be that way? The only outfield players still here who are big contributors now (and were under Moyes) are Bowen, Paqueta and arguably Mavropanos

You describe us very well. 

But in answer to your question, I would suggest the answer is simpler than you think. And that is that all four coaches were not very good and have fallen way below the standard of coaching required to be competitive in the PL (maybe?)

[fraser]

He's been a disaster of an appointment, but I have no problem with him talking to their players after as he knows them well and would be fucking strange if he'd blanked them. 

[Metroplex]

 What i find astonishing is that under FOUR managers in a row and virtually a completely different XI from Moyes to Nuno, the football has been the same.

 

We didn't even get any respite watching Southgate's England in the Euros. I'm only surprised that that drab coward hasn't been approached yet.

[El Scorchio]

What i find astonishing is that under FOUR managers in a row and virtually a completely different XI from Moyes to Nuno, the football has been the same.

With the ball- Slow, sideways, backwards, fuck all movement, players getting isolated, not working the opposition, easy to contain. Never creating overloads, no one seeming comfortable, panicking and misplacing passes, hoofing it hopefully forward. Totally unable to beat or move round a press

Without the ball- passive, retreating, meek, backpedalling, inviting the opposition to dominate territory and possession. Not pressing, slow to react

How is that even possible through four managers and virtually a whole new squad? To still be that way? The only outfield players still here who are big contributors now (and were under Moyes) are Bowen, Paqueta and arguably Mavropanos

[Vexed]

We need to be sounding out a progressive young manager for our rebuild in the championship now. One that wants to play ACTUAL FUCKING FOOTBALL with all that attacking and passing and stuff we used to hear about.

I'd also be selling off 'assets' like Paqueta and possibly even Bowen now while they still have value. Get the youth in every game fuck cunts like Kilman out of the squad entirely. 

Sack Nuno now, he aint got it and him and Potter have killed us. The only silver lining is that Sully's personal wealth has taken a big whack tonight, the only thing he cares about. 

[Come On You Irons]

Bloke's a cսnt just waiting for his "industry" standard pay off and reward for complete and utter failure.

Only at West Ham under Sullivan's regime would such a piss taking loser not being chopped. All simply due to penny pinching.

[violator]

If we lose to that lot, it will be three former teams in a row that he's lost to.