The Ashes.

[only1billybonds]

Just been announced that Josh Hazlewood will miss the first test due to start in Perth next Friday. This is a big blow to the Australians as they will already be without their captain and no.1 pace bowler Pat Cummins.

Englands preparations for the tour has been questioned by many as they have opted to play no warm up games aside from a one off against the English lions. 

Many are saying that its crucial that we get of to a good start in Perth which basically means we cant afford to lose seeing as the 2nd test in Brisbane is a day/night game ( fucking ridiculous) where the Aussies are strongly fancied.

Looking forward to this now but really unsure of how it will play out, I guess I'd still make them slight favourites due to home advantage. Going to be a few all nighters in the coming weeks for me, let's hope it'll be worth it.

[Monsieur merde de cheval]

Australia by 82 runs & win the series to retain the Ashes
Fighting effort by England. Batting properly & valuing their wickets. More of this from day 1 of the series who knows what the score would be. There certainly isn’t a 3-0 after 3 gulf between the teams.
Lyon does his hamstring earlier in the day which will put him out of Melbourne & Sydney. Maybe forever … finishing as an Ashes series winner and having gone past Glenn McGrath’s Test wickets total?
Todd Murphy or Matt Kuhneman to replace him.
Steve Smith will come back for Inglis & Beau Webster to replace the disappointing Green.

The Aussies have dismantled this 3 yrs in the making  pathetic and arrogant shit cսnt of a touring party in 11 days..
Fair play ..got what they deserved 

[Monsieur merde de cheval]

The skipper of this sorry arsed crew is going to need a long lie down after this .
I reckon he'll be mentally  spent after this .

West ham united levels of spineless from start to finish...bar the Jamaican 

[Fauxstralian]

Australia by 82 runs & win the series to retain the Ashes
Fighting effort by England. Batting properly & valuing their wickets. More of this from day 1 of the series who knows what the score would be. There certainly isn’t a 3-0 after 3 gulf between the teams.
Lyon does his hamstring earlier in the day which will put him out of Melbourne & Sydney. Maybe forever … finishing as an Ashes series winner and having gone past Glenn McGrath’s Test wickets total?
Todd Murphy or Matt Kuhneman to replace him.
Steve Smith will come back for Inglis & Beau Webster to replace the disappointing Green.

[Monsieur merde de cheval]

What is it with England teams and mental fragility?

 ...Old fashioned hard graft and discipline.

Australia is where English batsmen go to die

[Westside]

Ten tests in two separate spells in more than enough of a chance. The fella is not up to it at test level.

He doesn't even average 40 in county cricket FFS.

He averaged over 66 in county cricket this year.

[Come On You Irons]

Ten tests in two separate spells in more than enough of a chance. The fella is not up to it at test level.

He doesn't even average 40 in county cricket FFS.

[Westside]

"Hameed??? That player with a test average of 24 which is worse than Crawley's?"

Just because a player starts a test career poorly, doesn't mean he shouldn't be given another go and have the potential to succeed.

A certain Graham Gooch was dropped after averaging 9 at the start of his test career. I think he did ok when recalled.

And that Joe Root. Dropped in 2014, at the beginning of his career, has only averaged 53, with 38 hundreds, since he's been recalled.

[Come On You Irons]

There is nothing wrong with Bazball, as said by a previous poster it’s the loyalty to out of form players that’s the problem. Pope, Crawley ( although batted well today ), Smith and Jacks are all very average and need replacing. Bashir isn’t the answer either, I’d give Jack Carson a go. Time to bring back Bairstow and to give Hameed the opening spot.

Hameed??? That player with a test average of 24 which is worse than Crawley's?

You really are a clown and know as much about cricket as you do as football. Which is the square root of fuck all!

[Westham67]

For 15 sessions, the mindset should be winning each session and playing the game according to the situation, as in adapting to circumstances. I thought Stokes got everything wrong in the field, like giving Jacks the ball to bowl at a new batsman. I can and have suffered England losing as all of us have for decades, but this is unfathomable how this regime thought this would work in Australia. It's baffling,

[southbankbornnbred]

If you could show just one clip of why Bazball has been an ineffective, lazy disaster against even half-decebt sides, I’d just show Brooks’ dismissal today on a loop.

Theres a bloke with real talent, but who has been brainwashed into attacking absikutely everything, trying to reverse sweep a good ball from Lyon, on a good length, that turned, and just when England needed their top order to occupy the crease and graft a bit.

It was mindless twaddle, like most of Brooks’ batting on this tour. But he gets a free pass from his captain and coach, because “that’s how we play”.

[southbankbornnbred]

England are currently just not very good (regardless of the style of play) which is generally  the norm.
This century, we have had long periods of mediocrity and crapness, with the ocassional period of good cricket. 2003 - 2005, culminating in the  2005 Ashes, the 2008 - 2012 team, who eventually became world number 1, first year+ of Bazball, which included inflicting Pakistan's first and only  ever home, 3 test or more series  whitewash.

Who from the current top 7 would get in the 2010/11 England Ashes side? Stokes for Collingwood as a bowling all rounder option, even though Collingwood 's batting is far superior in terms of batting average and century per game rate. On the bowling front, I'd say only Archer would get in the 2010/11 side.

Most of this is true - although Root would also walk into that 2010/11 side. But that doesn’t mean that playing Bazball was England’s only option because they’re a bit shit. I’d argue that what English cricket really needs at test level is a sustained period where we focus on developing more players with technical ability. That gives you your best chance of winning against good sides.

Bazball purposefully, and lazily, tries to get around the hard graft required to develop proper players. But the corner cutting has been exposed.

Its fine for one day cricket - and should be encouraged at t20 level. But the discipline required to beat the likes of Australia, South Africa and India has currently left English cricket.

Complete brain fart on my part forgetting Root.

Don’t worry, West, it happens to us all! I once named a “best XI” ever in the pub, and forgot Maradona!

I was very pissed.

[Westside]

England are currently just not very good (regardless of the style of play) which is generally  the norm.
This century, we have had long periods of mediocrity and crapness, with the ocassional period of good cricket. 2003 - 2005, culminating in the  2005 Ashes, the 2008 - 2012 team, who eventually became world number 1, first year+ of Bazball, which included inflicting Pakistan's first and only  ever home, 3 test or more series  whitewash.

Who from the current top 7 would get in the 2010/11 England Ashes side? Stokes for Collingwood as a bowling all rounder option, even though Collingwood 's batting is far superior in terms of batting average and century per game rate. On the bowling front, I'd say only Archer would get in the 2010/11 side.

Most of this is true - although Root would also walk into that 2010/11 side. But that doesn’t mean that playing Bazball was England’s only option because they’re a bit shit. I’d argue that what English cricket really needs at test level is a sustained period where we focus on developing more players with technical ability. That gives you your best chance of winning against good sides.

Bazball purposefully, and lazily, tries to get around the hard graft required to develop proper players. But the corner cutting has been exposed.

Its fine for one day cricket - and should be encouraged at t20 level. But the discipline required to beat the likes of Australia, South Africa and India has currently left English cricket.

Complete brain fart on my part forgetting Root.

[southbankbornnbred]

It’s no coincidence that the only England side to win down under since the late 80s was grounded in players who had excellent technique and could graft when it mattered.

Pietersen was the exception, because his aggression was so effective (he also has a very good technique). But that successful Ashes tour was grounded in big runs from Cook, Trott and Bell.

It might sound boring, but it’s a five-day game. You can’t cut corners. Getting bowled out in 30 overs in Ashes tests is one-day guff.

Even Viv Richards, one of the most aggressive batsmen ever, used to leave poor, wide balls if his feet couldn’t take him there. He forced bowlers to bowl at him. He wasn’t a slogger - his technique was unbelievable. But he would defend good balls.

[southbankbornnbred]

England are currently just not very good (regardless of the style of play) which is generally  the norm.
This century, we have had long periods of mediocrity and crapness, with the ocassional period of good cricket. 2003 - 2005, culminating in the  2005 Ashes, the 2008 - 2012 team, who eventually became world number 1, first year+ of Bazball, which included inflicting Pakistan's first and only  ever home, 3 test or more series  whitewash.

Who from the current top 7 would get in the 2010/11 England Ashes side? Stokes for Collingwood as a bowling all rounder option, even though Collingwood 's batting is far superior in terms of batting average and century per game rate. On the bowling front, I'd say only Archer would get in the 2010/11 side.

Most of this is true - although Root would also walk into that 2010/11 side. But that doesn’t mean that playing Bazball was England’s only option because they’re a bit shit. I’d argue that what English cricket really needs at test level is a sustained period where we focus on developing more players with technical ability. That gives you your best chance of winning against good sides.

Bazball purposefully, and lazily, tries to get around the hard graft required to develop proper players. But the corner cutting has been exposed.

Its fine for one day cricket - and should be encouraged at t20 level. But the discipline required to beat the likes of Australia, South Africa and India has currently left English cricket.

[zebthecat]

It is all but over now but it has been since day 2 in Perth really.
Australia are just too good on their home grounds. The Adelaide pitch is not doing much which should have suited England but the home bowlers know how to bowl on them, Lyon vs whoever spins for England is a mismatch.
This is the end for this England team. They have prepared for the series for two years and have failed dismallly. Bazball is all well and good but when there are no consequences for sustained failure the tream has become complacent and there has been no plan B and nobody was even remotely prepared to step in to replace the failures. For all the talk about Jacob Bethell he spent last summer on drinks duty for the test squad rather than actually playing cricket.
Don't forget that Australia have been missing key players in every match and are still winning comfortably.
Ben Stokes is a good captain from a motivation point of view but hopeless tatictically using weird funky fields and banging the ball in short. Aiming for the top of off stump with some slips still works long term.
 

[only1billybonds]

As said, this isn't so much about players ability, its more a case of most of them just don't apply themselves to a 5 day test. Take Duckett today. Getting out minutes before lunch at the very start of an innings,playing a ball that should have been left is nothing short of being childishly irresponsible.
This has happened time and again on this tour and if the individuals concerned were going to learn,they would have done so by now. 
 

[Westside]

England are currently just not very good (regardless of the style of play) which is generally  the norm.
This century, we have had long periods of mediocrity and crapness, with the ocassional period of good cricket. 2003 - 2005, culminating in the  2005 Ashes, the 2008 - 2012 team, who eventually became world number 1, first year+ of Bazball, which included inflicting Pakistan's first and only  ever home, 3 test or more series  whitewash.

Who from the current top 7 would get in the 2010/11 England Ashes side? Stokes for Collingwood as a bowling all rounder option, even though Collingwood 's batting is far superior in terms of batting average and century per game rate. On the bowling front, I'd say only Archer would get in the 2010/11 side.

[southbankbornnbred]

Sorry, can’t have the Bazball apologists.

It isn’t just about sticking with players who are out of form. It’s an entire style of cricket that is too attacking for test matches, and which eschews technical ability in favour of aggression. For example, almost none of the batsmen now move their feet properly. They just swing wildly at everything that’s wide and they try to play at everything on their legs. What’s lost is decent movement at the crease, the ability to judge when to leave a wide ball and the ability to graft when runs do not come easily.

Technically speaking, you’re watching some atrocious and misaligned swatting too often. Players off balance trying to hell for leather the ball, or playing too far from their body because they havent moved their feet. That’s usually what’s happening when commentators say they’re throwing their wickets away.

That’s Bazball. And when people who know point out that it’s technically shit, lazy and trying to cut corners, the response from its protagonists is simply: “Thaes how we play.”

Its the cricket equivalent of Big Ange football. It’ll work we’ll thrashing poor sides. Any decent team will take you to the cleaners, because it lacks the discipline and graft needed for the 5-day game.

[Fauxstralian]

In Test cricket ideally you attack when you can & defend when you have to
Play the game as it is in front of you
Playing a nuanced game … seems beyond the Kiwi coach 
The man who retired suddenly after it was revealed he took 3 years to report a match fixing approach from his mate / associate Chris Cairns. 
Bazball … you’d never know when spot fixing was happening now would you?

[twoleftfeet]

There is nothing wrong with Bazball, as said by a previous poster it’s the loyalty to out of form players that’s the problem. Pope, Crawley ( although batted well today ), Smith and Jacks are all very average and need replacing. Bashir isn’t the answer either, I’d give Jack Carson a go. Time to bring back Bairstow and to give Hameed the opening spot.

[Westside]

Westfield.

There's a time and a place to play aggressively, aka Bazball. But it isnt in the first over of an innings or when you're trying to occupy the crease.

Doesn't matter what style of play you play, it's the results that matter and it seems people are never happy. I can remember cricket threads on here, criticising England at their rare peak around 2012, under Sir Chef, for scoring too slowly, timid declarations and not enforcing follow ons. And yet on this thread, Stokes was criticised for enforcing the follow on in New Zealand. And don't forget, England went nearly 2 years from December 2017 - August 2019, without scoring 400 in their first innings, trying to occupy the crease and build an innings and not attacking from ball one

 

My main criticism of the current set up is perseverance with players who are not good enough or out of form. Whilst not liking players not been giving theirs chances and being discarded after 2 or 3 poor tests, the obsession with Crawley, Pope, Bashir is ridiculous.

[only1billybonds]

Westfield.

There's a time and a place to play aggressively, aka Bazball. But it isnt in the first over of an innings or when you're trying to occupy the crease.

[Westside]

Yep, i fully expect that they'll be told to pack it in and revert to casual,irresponsible batting. Can't have people playing properly, it'll harm the Bazball brand.

And batting properly worked so well before Bazball. We had the fantastic record of one win in 17 tests, before Stokes became captain.

[Fauxstralian]

Some wickets thrown away … old habits die hard … but more fight shown when most tried to play proper Test match cricket
There isn’t the gap that the scoreline implies 
England need to pick some players who want to bat like Test players 
Personally like many I don’t think Pope is good enough especially at 3 & next summer I’d ditch Duckett who is unable to leave a ball for a proper opener like Hameed
Harry ‘Forrest Gump’ Brook needs a kick up the arse & the selectors need to look at county players who value their wickets rather than selecting lemmings 
McCullum has to go … there MUST be an Englishman who can take over. Someone who cares about England winning Test matches rather than a Kiwi. 
Not the 2005 ball tamperer Mad Marcus Trescothick though 

[only1billybonds]

The dismissals of Duckett and Root came at absolutely crucial times which makes it more infuriating that both fell to shots that really didn't need to be played. Think we had a genuine chance while Root and Crawley were going well. 
Still, a draw or victory would have been papering over some huge cracks.