West Ham United 25/26 relegation thread

[muskie]

Odds slashed from 5/1 to 7/2.

Watch this space.

I think we're fucked.

[muskie]

We are shit and we are going down.

[Sir Alf]

Spot on COYI. Agree totally. And u did it in less than 3 paragraphs. ( Alf stands back in awe of such a thing) 

Please dont bore off

[Come On You Irons]

Yes the whole pre-season and early season bragging from Sullivan and Brady about "an unprecedented fourteen consecutive seasons in the Premier League" is really being exposed now for the pathetic hubris of what it is.

How many of those 14 seasons have been relegation dog fights? At least half of them. There has only been 5 top 10 finishing positions in fourteen seasons and the average finishing position in the 13 completes seasons is 11th, so bottom half. The average finishing position in the 9 complete seasons since the stadium move has also been 11th.

So much for "next level" following the move to the bowl.

[WHU(Exeter)]

I noticed the spin they put into one of their 'appeasing' club messages a couple months back, about how they had managed us to the longest consecutive spell in the Premiership. (conveniently omitting the fact that that spell would have been longer, had they not got us relegated themselves early on). 

With the relegations at Brum as well, they must be on for the record of relegating clubs from the top flight, since the introduction of the football league.

Supported for decades, so used to the hurt of relegations, but this time (and the last), even that pales, as the overriding ' downer' to all of it will still be there in David Sullivan.

[Far Cough UKunt]

https://www.hammers.news/news/nuno-espi ... ing-staff/

Posted this in the Nuno thread, which apparently explains why Nuno didn't bring his own staff in, although as you say wouldn't be surprised if Sullivan had a word as well.  In some ways yes it's nice to keep loyal servants to the club on board but not if they can't do it at the highest level.  Pottsy and Mark Robson as nice as they may be obviously aren't cutting it at first team level, certainly not under Nuno.  It goes back again to Harry and the way he made some hard decisions that were unpopular at the time, like letting Ronnie Boyce go and bringing in Jimmy Hampson.  Yes, as always with West Ham it could and should have been handled better, but you can't deny Hampson had a positive effect at the club.  Same with Bilic and Dicksy, sometimes sentimentality gets in the way and again there was a massive difference with Moyes when he had Alan Irvine next to him.  Best example ever Brian Clough and Peter Taylor.  

Bertie Mee and Don Howe.

[Come On You Irons]

This is my strong suspicion Scorch.

As usual a long diatribe ( I find it cathartic and need to get back to my old ways in 2026 afyer being accused of being concise and to the point the other day, I was deeply offended by that )

So… here’s my latest stream of semi consciousness:

Sullivan cannot so easily apply his first instinct, which is “cost containment”,  to things like player fees and recruiting managers ( its market driven and highly competitive ). He tries but generally speaking he has to authorise many transfers the managers he appoints request or recruitment teams suggest?. He will veto the ones where he thinks its too much for an unproven or young player ( many of these go on to be very good players). Point is its done from a financial standpoint mostly, that in his mind trumps data analysis of the player, potential of longer term increase in player value. Sullivan is just like so many accountants in businesses who look no further than the current financial year and cost containment.  To his credit and trying to be balanced ( grits teeth) , he and the board have spent a lot over the last 5 years relative to many clubs (albeit its all against future revenues and using loans but most clubs do that). And its not like Brown and the Cearns, Reg Pratt and co in that sense. They seemed far more frugal even in the days before huge TV revenues and other sources of funding. They do share one thing in common though, none of them invested any of their own money aside from an initial purchase of shares. 

Sullivan, Brady, Gold’s biggest failure has been this lack of vision, long term planning, football knowledge and insight caused by the singular focus or prioritisation of anything that could increase the value of their shares asap. Its the reason they bought West Ham of course. To make a lot of money in a relatively short period by getting the OS, selling UP. The TV and ticket revenue and selling or mortgaging every fixed asset was leveraged to the max to borrow against and has financed everything. 

And the last 3-5 years is their crowning failure. Im guessing West Ham’s recruitment and spending has been the most appalling and disasterous in Europe’s top divisions? Perhaps only Man Utd’s is worse?

But, finally getting back to the point ( huzzah they all shout if they have not already stabbed their eyes out ) where he ( Sullivan ) focuses a lot is the peripheral or other costs like agents fees, terms and conditions of transfers like payment terms, loans / loans to buy if possible, add ons, anything to keep costs down in the financial year without thinking too much, if at all, about the longer term impacts. It causes us to miss out on many players, collapses deals as other clubs DOFs and owners walk away from Sullivan’s derisory offers, “moving goalposts” last minute and generally it has meant anyone coming into scoutimg and recruitment at West Ham has been severely handicapped by our owner. 

For all the above reasons, Im convinced Sullivan would have told Nuno that he would not be hiring his backroom team. Sully would, like an “accountant on steriods”, have been livid about gaving to have already hired and paid off 2 teams of backroom staff in one accounting period.  Not once did he consider or undrrstand that a manager is usually only as good as the team that has always been with him.

Sullivan cannot help himself, his insecurities, ego, need for control, narcissism, whatever it is, just doesnt allow him to listen, change etc. He knows best and its why he retains veto power over everything and why he is now back controlling everything. He never wanted DOFs, Steidten etc, its why he only half implemented it and made it unclear who was recruiting. Its why we had committee based recruitment with everyone getting picks of players.

To conclude ( anyone who has got this far , i have rhe national number of the samaritans if you WHOmail me ) and we all know this, nothing can get ever really change or get better long term while Sullivan owns us.

NO MORE BS ( not my posts that BS will continue. So thank you all for indulging me. Alf takes another drag on crack pipe) 

Bore off Sir Alf.

[Sir Alf]

This is my strong suspicion Scorch.

As usual a long diatribe ( I find it cathartic and need to get back to my old ways in 2026 afyer being accused of being concise and to the point the other day, I was deeply offended by that )

So… here’s my latest stream of semi consciousness:

Sullivan cannot so easily apply his first instinct, which is “cost containment”,  to things like player fees and recruiting managers ( its market driven and highly competitive ). He tries but generally speaking he has to authorise many transfers the managers he appoints request or recruitment teams suggest?. He will veto the ones where he thinks its too much for an unproven or young player ( many of these go on to be very good players). Point is its done from a financial standpoint mostly, that in his mind trumps data analysis of the player, potential of longer term increase in player value. Sullivan is just like so many accountants in businesses who look no further than the current financial year and cost containment.  To his credit and trying to be balanced ( grits teeth) , he and the board have spent a lot over the last 5 years relative to many clubs (albeit its all against future revenues and using loans but most clubs do that). And its not like Brown and the Cearns, Reg Pratt and co in that sense. They seemed far more frugal even in the days before huge TV revenues and other sources of funding. They do share one thing in common though, none of them invested any of their own money aside from an initial purchase of shares. 

Sullivan, Brady, Gold’s biggest failure has been this lack of vision, long term planning, football knowledge and insight caused by the singular focus or prioritisation of anything that could increase the value of their shares asap. Its the reason they bought West Ham of course. To make a lot of money in a relatively short period by getting the OS, selling UP. The TV and ticket revenue and selling or mortgaging every fixed asset was leveraged to the max to borrow against and has financed everything. 

And the last 3-5 years is their crowning failure. Im guessing West Ham’s recruitment and spending has been the most appalling and disasterous in Europe’s top divisions? Perhaps only Man Utd’s is worse?

But, finally getting back to the point ( huzzah they all shout if they have not already stabbed their eyes out ) where he ( Sullivan ) focuses a lot is the peripheral or other costs like agents fees, terms and conditions of transfers like payment terms, loans / loans to buy if possible, add ons, anything to keep costs down in the financial year without thinking too much, if at all, about the longer term impacts. It causes us to miss out on many players, collapses deals as other clubs DOFs and owners walk away from Sullivan’s derisory offers, “moving goalposts” last minute and generally it has meant anyone coming into scoutimg and recruitment at West Ham has been severely handicapped by our owner. 

For all the above reasons, Im convinced Sullivan would have told Nuno that he would not be hiring his backroom team. Sully would, like an “accountant on steriods”, have been livid about gaving to have already hired and paid off 2 teams of backroom staff in one accounting period.  Not once did he consider or undrrstand that a manager is usually only as good as the team that has always been with him.

Sullivan cannot help himself, his insecurities, ego, need for control, narcissism, whatever it is, just doesnt allow him to listen, change etc. He knows best and its why he retains veto power over everything and why he is now back controlling everything. He never wanted DOFs, Steidten etc, its why he only half implemented it and made it unclear who was recruiting. Its why we had committee based recruitment with everyone getting picks of players.

To conclude ( anyone who has got this far , i have rhe national number of the samaritans if you WHOmail me ) and we all know this, nothing can get ever really change or get better long term while Sullivan owns us.

NO MORE BS ( not my posts that BS will continue. So thank you all for indulging me. Alf takes another drag on crack pipe) 

[zico]

https://www.hammers.news/news/nuno-espi ... ing-staff/

Posted this in the Nuno thread, which apparently explains why Nuno didn't bring his own staff in, although as you say wouldn't be surprised if Sullivan had a word as well.  In some ways yes it's nice to keep loyal servants to the club on board but not if they can't do it at the highest level.  Pottsy and Mark Robson as nice as they may be obviously aren't cutting it at first team level, certainly not under Nuno.  It goes back again to Harry and the way he made some hard decisions that were unpopular at the time, like letting Ronnie Boyce go and bringing in Jimmy Hampson.  Yes, as always with West Ham it could and should have been handled better, but you can't deny Hampson had a positive effect at the club.  Same with Bilic and Dicksy, sometimes sentimentality gets in the way and again there was a massive difference with Moyes when he had Alan Irvine next to him.  Best example ever Brian Clough and Peter Taylor.  

[Sarge]

Whats remarkable is how we went down with those players! Fucking Glenn Roeder!!! Should have been push for champions league not relegation. Another terrible appointment.

Especially after finishing 7th the previous season.  Like him or loathe him it also shows how good Harry was at man management in many ways, on how he dealt with Di Canio.  It also shows the value of getting your backroom team right, which is something I think Nuno has got wrong.  Roeder had Paul Goddard as his Assistant and as good a player Sarge was he had no real experience as far as I know in coaching and didn't do an awful lot after.  He always reminded me a bit of Phil Neal at Graham Taylor's side, a bit of a nodding dog.

Awwwww Yes (in the style of the Churchill insurance ads) 

[theaxeman]

Whats remarkable is how we went down with those players! Fucking Glenn Roeder!!! Should have been push for champions league not relegation. Another terrible appointment.

Especially after finishing 7th the previous season.  Like him or loathe him it also shows how good Harry was at man management in many ways, on how he dealt with Di Canio.  It also shows the value of getting your backroom team right, which is something I think Nuno has got wrong.  Roeder had Paul Goddard as his Assistant and as good a player Sarge was he had no real experience as far as I know in coaching and didn't do an awful lot after.  He always reminded me a bit of Phil Neal at Graham Taylor's side, a bit of a nodding dog.

The uncomfortable truth is that Harry was brilliant for us. Watched some great football and some tremendous players. Of course you can find fault as there were plenty.
I definitely think it's a huge problem Nuno hasn't got his team behind him. Potts and Robson, good West Ham people that they are, just don't have what's needed at this level in my opinion.

[El Scorchio]

We really don’t know how much say Nuno has had in his back room staff, which is a problem. Especially if it’s Sullivan’s cheapness which meant a huge half measure. We all know how important that staff is. 

[zico]

Whats remarkable is how we went down with those players! Fucking Glenn Roeder!!! Should have been push for champions league not relegation. Another terrible appointment.

Especially after finishing 7th the previous season.  Like him or loathe him it also shows how good Harry was at man management in many ways, on how he dealt with Di Canio.  It also shows the value of getting your backroom team right, which is something I think Nuno has got wrong.  Roeder had Paul Goddard as his Assistant and as good a player Sarge was he had no real experience as far as I know in coaching and didn't do an awful lot after.  He always reminded me a bit of Phil Neal at Graham Taylor's side, a bit of a nodding dog.

[theaxeman]

Yeah. Weird that Cole, Carrick, Defoe, Johnson, Kanoute and DiCanio managed to achieve anything at all in their careers post 2003 when you think about it

Fair point, but they did all fly the nest to pastures green and were far better players. Would have been interesting to see how they would have done if one club had bought all of them!

Whats remarkable is how we went down with those players! Fucking Glenn Roeder!!! Should have been push for champions league not relegation. Another terrible appointment.

[zico]

Yeah. Weird that Cole, Carrick, Defoe, Johnson, Kanoute and DiCanio managed to achieve anything at all in their careers post 2003 when you think about it

Fair point, but they did all fly the nest to pastures green and were far better players. Would have been interesting to see how they would have done if one club had bought all of them!

[onsideman]

Just saw this.  Exactly what I was saying about players without winning mentalities.  I didn't know we had this many.
Fernandes, Walker-Peters, Ward-Prowse - Relegated with Southampton
Wilson - Relegated with Bournemouth
Areola - Relegated with Fulham
Summerville - Relegated with Leeds
Fabianski - Relegated with Swansea 
Igor - Relegated with SPAL
Hermansen - Relegated with Leicester

 

 

 

 

Yeah. Weird that Cole, Carrick, Defoe, Johnson, Kanoute and DiCanio managed to achieve anything at all in their careers post 2003 when you think about it

[cup of tea]

Millwall now 3 points outside automatic promotion spot

Well we all know how this season is going to end up don't we?! We go down bottom and Millwall end up winning the play off final. 

I have dreaded this scenario all season long. It would be the ultimate embarrassment to go down and for them to go up and be a division above us.

 

 

Well they are playing OK, their league position suggest that. Play offs as we know are a lottery, a lottery they could end up winning!

[Mad Dog]

They probably have players that give a shit

[Come On You Irons]

Millwall now 3 points outside automatic promotion spot

Well we all know how this season is going to end up don't we?! We go down bottom and Millwall end up winning the play off final. 

I have dreaded this scenario all season long. It would be the ultimate embarrassment to go down and for them to go up and be a division above us.

[eusebiovic]

Millwall now 3 points outside automatic promotion spot

Well we all know how this season is going to end up don't we?! We go down bottom and Millwall end up winning the play off final. 

I don't know how they do it. They literally don't have a pot to piss in. The fact they have been thereabouts more often than not in recent years is some achievement. A shoestring budget is being generous. Who's scouting players for them? 

[cup of tea]

Millwall now 3 points outside automatic promotion spot

Well we all know how this season is going to end up don't we?! We go down bottom and Millwall end up winning the play off final. 

[zico]

Just saw this.  Exactly what I was saying about players without winning mentalities.  I didn't know we had this many.
Fernandes, Walker-Peters, Ward-Prowse - Relegated with Southampton
Wilson - Relegated with Bournemouth
Areola - Relegated with Fulham
Summerville - Relegated with Leeds
Fabianski - Relegated with Swansea 
Igor - Relegated with SPAL
Hermansen - Relegated with Leicester

[Leonard Hatred]

Millwall now 3 points outside automatic promotion spot

[Westham67]

Normally, I dont care going down, but this time I do. We have the bones of a very good young side. Some of those younger players have international careers to think about, so playing in the second division (Championship) wont be for them. Sullivan has no sentiment for the club, just his wallet 

[GBHammer63]

 

We will obviously lose on Tuesday, but Dysche isn't that great a manager. Forest will stay up due to our ineptitude, rather than Dysche's skill. It was only last January he was sacked by Everon, 1 point above the relegation zone, after 3 wins in 19 matches. Moyes, with conspicous ease, took  those same players to safety and with some summer 2025 additions has maintained them in mid table.

Mate, I’m not saying Dyche is anything special in fact he’s not much at all, merely pointing out he’s a lot more passionate than our clown who spent his last 45 minutes sitting with his arms crossed, only getting up in the last minute to scratch his arse and fuck off down the tunnel.

Is his passion working? 

Better than Nuno’s, grow up.

[Come On You Irons]

Forest is last chance saloon for me. Fail to win that and we are effectively done and can start preparing for the Championship.

Win it and we are only one point behind them, albeit with an inferior goal difference, with 17 games to go.