Pablo- is he absolute gash?

[El Scorchio]

He’s got me stumped. He puts in so much effort and runs all day and makes us a lot better off the ball as well as trying hard when we have it, harasses defenders and tires the opposition out to give a good opportunity for Wilson to come on. I like him. We are better when he’s playing…

BUT he seems like an utter donkey. Giraffe on roller skates. Woeful touch under any sort of pressure and off the speed of the game in any sort of tight situation and looks less likely to score than Areola. Like the absolute opposite of Wilson who has none of th physical tools but all the brain and composure. 

So what do we make of him? 

[El Scorchio]

I agree to a level. For me it's the comparison between Aguero and Arnautovic. No question Aguero was the better player, but for West Ham he'd never have been as effective as Arnautovic.

Box strikers need service, and to provide service you need control of the ball and to be able to progress up the field.

Mid and lower table teams rely a lot on direct football and hold up play from their central striker...without that they never get to a position to provide service to a 'fox in the box'.

Wilson may be good in the box, but offers us next to nothing outside it. Can't run, can't press, cant win in the air, and can't hold it up, and only barely occupied the centre backs.

We're just not a good enough team to carry a striker who offers next to nothing outside the box. I like Wilson, but impact sub for him when the opposition are tired, and his lack of athletiscim is less of a barrier is exactly the right role for him on this squad at this time. Pablo and Castellanos will likely never be as good as he was in his prime, or as clinical/instinctive as he still is, but they simply contribute way more to the team effort and are fundamentally the key change in our recent uptick in performances. 

Not a snowball in hell's chance Wilson starts over either of them for me. 

 

Man Utd had a similar problem when Ronaldo rejoined them. They were set up that season thinking greenwood and the uraguay geezer were going to play up front and offer defensive energy / pressing. Ronaldo came in and scored a lot of goals but overall it didn’t work because he just walked around up front with no press.

That and I think he completely destroyed the dressing room as well. Absolute addition by subtraction for them when he fucked off to Saudi Arabia.

[threesixty]

I agree to a level. For me it's the comparison between Aguero and Arnautovic. No question Aguero was the better player, but for West Ham he'd never have been as effective as Arnautovic.

Box strikers need service, and to provide service you need control of the ball and to be able to progress up the field.

Mid and lower table teams rely a lot on direct football and hold up play from their central striker...without that they never get to a position to provide service to a 'fox in the box'.

Wilson may be good in the box, but offers us next to nothing outside it. Can't run, can't press, cant win in the air, and can't hold it up, and only barely occupied the centre backs.

We're just not a good enough team to carry a striker who offers next to nothing outside the box. I like Wilson, but impact sub for him when the opposition are tired, and his lack of athletiscim is less of a barrier is exactly the right role for him on this squad at this time. Pablo and Castellanos will likely never be as good as he was in his prime, or as clinical/instinctive as he still is, but they simply contribute way more to the team effort and are fundamentally the key change in our recent uptick in performances. 

Not a snowball in hell's chance Wilson starts over either of them for me. 

 

 

Man Utd had a similar problem when Ronaldo rejoined them. They were set up that season thinking greenwood and the uraguay geezer were going to play up front and offer defensive energy / pressing. Ronaldo came in and scored a lot of goals but overall it didn’t work because he just walked around up front with no press.

[Russ of the BML]

I like him. Honest and hardworking. 

It may take him some time to work on his quality with the ball. But, as others pointed out, he picks up little pockets of space and moves the opponent, stretches their positions and turns them around. I watched him for a bit and he is always moving, finding space and works hard off the ball. I am sure its no coincidence that Bowen and Summerville look better with him the team. 

[Monsieur merde de cheval]

He free ' s up the better players ..and works his  Porcho nuts off.
That's works for me 

[Vexed]

There's no mystique about him, just the nous to score important goals with extremely limited amount of game time anyway like he sent us all bezerk last week scoring the winner against those north London wankers. 

So your opinion is based heavily on one goal where the ball fell in front of him and he poked it home from less than a yard out?  Seems reasonable. 

From what we have seen, Wilson as of now is a better premier league striker than Pablo. Completly reasonable given his experience in this league. May well change over time and let’s hope it does.

Dont let it vex you Vexed. 

Depends what is asked of your strikers, don't it swamp dweller? 

[stubbo-admin]

I agree to a level. For me it's the comparison between Aguero and Arnautovic. No question Aguero was the better player, but for West Ham he'd never have been as effective as Arnautovic.

Box strikers need service, and to provide service you need control of the ball and to be able to progress up the field.

Mid and lower table teams rely a lot on direct football and hold up play from their central striker...without that they never get to a position to provide service to a 'fox in the box'.

Wilson may be good in the box, but offers us next to nothing outside it. Can't run, can't press, cant win in the air, and can't hold it up, and only barely occupied the centre backs.

We're just not a good enough team to carry a striker who offers next to nothing outside the box. I like Wilson, but impact sub for him when the opposition are tired, and his lack of athletiscim is less of a barrier is exactly the right role for him on this squad at this time. Pablo and Castellanos will likely never be as good as he was in his prime, or as clinical/instinctive as he still is, but they simply contribute way more to the team effort and are fundamentally the key change in our recent uptick in performances. 

Not a snowball in hell's chance Wilson starts over either of them for me. 

[dealcanvey]

IMO there is no point comparing Pablo with Wilson, because Wilson does things Pablo doesn't, and Pablo does a whole load of things Wilson doesn't.

It's not apples for apples.

Castellanos is a much better comparison. Wilson is way better in the box, Castellanos is way better outside the box.

Pablo and Wilson is like comparing Antonio and Chicharito...both notionally "strikers" but totally different players.

My original post was that Wilson should be ahead of not just Pablo but Castellanos aswell as above all I like a striker that puts the ball in the back of the net which we can compare all strikers on. 

I don’t see having two strikers playing that are both better outside the box rather than in it lasting long term. 

[stubbo-admin]

IMO there is no point comparing Pablo with Wilson, because Wilson does things Pablo doesn't, and Pablo does a whole load of things Wilson doesn't.

It's not apples for apples.

Castellanos is a much better comparison. Wilson is way better in the box, Castellanos is way better outside the box.

Pablo and Wilson is like comparing Antonio and Chicharito...both notionally "strikers" but totally different players.

[dealcanvey]

The cսnt can't run! Colombo is not required to solve this mystery. He uses his 'intelligence' in a mostly stationary position. The mystique around this truly average cսnt is really fucking weird. 

There's no mystique about him, just the nous to score important goals with extremely limited amount of game time anyway like he sent us all bezerk last week scoring the winner against those north London wankers. 

So your opinion is based heavily on one goal where the ball fell in front of him and he poked it home from less than a yard out?  Seems reasonable. 

From what we have seen, Wilson as of now is a better premier league striker than Pablo. Completly reasonable given his experience in this league. May well change over time and let’s hope it does.

Dont let it vex you Vexed. 

[Sir Alf]

He has contributed in open play more than Taty last 2 games imo but the Argie is far superior technically and likely to score or contribute to goals it would seem. But he’s young and can develop. Looks like a young un in physical challenges with the big, athletic CBs of the PL but, at the same time, is causing them problems by pressing and taking on evey duel he can with them.  Really like how unselfish he is and from what I know ( not much ) he is being played out of position for us in a withdrawn role rather than out and out CF?  

Yes we overpaid but he’s young and will be effective especially in the Championship if thats where we end up. 

[eusebiovic]

He doesn't just add goals he worries defences whenever he gets on the ball in their half. Like the commentators rightly point out it's his intelligence to go with his play that sticks out just as much as his goals and efforts towards goal. How he still gets overlooked starting games with his wealth of Prem experience and goal threat instead given token run outs at the arse end of games is bonkers.

The cսnt can't run! Colombo is not required to solve this mystery. He uses his 'intelligence' in a mostly stationary position. The mystique around this truly average cսnt is really fucking weird. 

He holds the ball up quite well which is probably why he plays deep just behind Taty. He seems to be like a refrigerator who can shield the ball so the wingers can bomb on but doesn't currently look like a goal threat. 

We'll see 

Obviously I was referring to Pablo and not Williams Son

[Tomshardware]

Pablo is ace.

[Massive Attack]

No that was just 1 example of scoring an important goal we desperately needed - thank fuck. He's also scored 4 other goals and an assist in the League as well with limited game time. Not bad for a Striker who cannot move and only 2 League goals behind Bowen who plays every minute and now takes our penalties. 

[Vexed]

He doesn't just add goals he worries defences whenever he gets on the ball in their half. Like the commentators rightly point out it's his intelligence to go with his play that sticks out just as much as his goals and efforts towards goal. How he still gets overlooked starting games with his wealth of Prem experience and goal threat instead given token run outs at the arse end of games is bonkers.

The cսnt can't run! Colombo is not required to solve this mystery. He uses his 'intelligence' in a mostly stationary position. The mystique around this truly average cսnt is really fucking weird. 

There's no mystique about him, just the nous to score important goals with extremely limited amount of game time anyway like he sent us all bezerk last week scoring the winner against those north London wankers. 

So your opinion is based heavily on one goal where the ball fell in front of him and he poked it home from less than a yard out?  Seems reasonable. 

[Massive Attack]

Wilson, a striker, whose job is scoring goals, has a goals to minutes ratio twice as good as the next player in the squad. Does very little as fucking usual?

He doesn't just add goals he worries defences whenever he gets on the ball in their half. Like the commentators rightly point out it's his intelligence to go with his play that sticks out just as much as his goals and efforts towards goal. How he still gets overlooked starting games with his wealth of Prem experience and goal threat instead given token run outs at the arse end of games is bonkers.

The cսnt can't run! Colombo is not required to solve this mystery. He uses his 'intelligence' in a mostly stationary position. The mystique around this truly average cսnt is really fucking weird. 

There's no mystique about him, just the nous to score important goals with extremely limited amount of game time anyway like he sent us all bezerk last week scoring the winner against those north London wankers. 

[eusebiovic]

Wilson, a striker, whose job is scoring goals, has a goals to minutes ratio twice as good as the next player in the squad. Does very little as fucking usual?

He doesn't just add goals he worries defences whenever he gets on the ball in their half. Like the commentators rightly point out it's his intelligence to go with his play that sticks out just as much as his goals and efforts towards goal. How he still gets overlooked starting games with his wealth of Prem experience and goal threat instead given token run outs at the arse end of games is bonkers.

The cսnt can't run! Colombo is not required to solve this mystery. He uses his 'intelligence' in a mostly stationary position. The mystique around this truly average cսnt is really fucking weird. 

He holds the ball up quite well which is probably why he plays deep just behind Taty. He seems to be like a refrigerator who can shield the ball so the wingers can bomb on but doesn't currently look like a goal threat. 

We'll see 

[Vexed]

Interesting because the Wilson I saw did very little, as fucking usual. Without a goal his performances look somewhat different to the superhero the idiot majority seem to have decided he is. 

Wilson, a striker, whose job is scoring goals, has a goals to minutes ratio twice as good as the next player in the squad. Does very little as fucking usual?

He doesn't just add goals he worries defences whenever he gets on the ball in their half. Like the commentators rightly point out it's his intelligence to go with his play that sticks out just as much as his goals and efforts towards goal. How he still gets overlooked starting games with his wealth of Prem experience and goal threat instead given token run outs at the arse end of games is bonkers.

The cսnt can't run! Colombo is not required to solve this mystery. He uses his 'intelligence' in a mostly stationary position. The mystique around this truly average cսnt is really fucking weird. 

[Massive Attack]

Thought Wilson came on and once again offered more than both the new signings. Should be Wilson and one of the two new lads.

Interesting because the Wilson I saw did very little, as fucking usual. Without a goal his performances look somewhat different to the superhero the idiot majority seem to have decided he is. 

Wilson, a striker, whose job is scoring goals, has a goals to minutes ratio twice as good as the next player in the squad. Does very little as fucking usual?

He doesn't just add goals he worries defences whenever he gets on the ball in their half. Like the commentators rightly point out it's his intelligence to go with his play that sticks out just as much as his goals and efforts towards goal. How he still gets overlooked starting games with his wealth of Prem experience and goal threat instead given token run outs at the arse end of games is bonkers.

[Vexed]

Thought Wilson came on and once again offered more than both the new signings. Should be Wilson and one of the two new lads.

Interesting because the Wilson I saw did very little, as fucking usual. Without a goal his performances look somewhat different to the superhero the idiot majority seem to have decided he is. 

Wilson, a striker, whose job is scoring goals, has a goals to minutes ratio twice as good as the next player in the squad. Does very little as fucking usual?

Yes, that is correct 

[Keep dreaming]

He’s got me stumped. He puts in so much effort and runs all day and makes us a lot better off the ball as well as trying hard when we have it, harasses defenders and tires the opposition out to give a good opportunity for Wilson to come on. I like him. We are better when he’s playing…

 

I think you said it all;

Lots of effort, makes us better, but a donkey with the ball.
As long as he makes us better, I'm ok with him playing 

[southbankbornnbred]

He’s been poor so far, as a goal threat. Does work hard off the ball, granted. Let’s be honest, most of us wouldn’t have signed him.

We’d have been better off signing one proven £40m striker than two unproven £20+m types (and keeping Wilson, of course).

But he’s one of us now - it’s a big step up for him and we do need to give him some time. As always, I hope he becomes a good player for us. Because he’s West Ham now.




 

I don’t know that I agree with the £40m point. For one we’ve tried that with zero success, but more importantly, both of these two are comfortable dropping deeper with one always playing as the extra midfielder at alternative times to the other, and both have excellent work rate. Dropping in opens up the space that both Summerville and Bowen are benefitting from. Without them occupying the defenders no chance the smallest player on the pitch drifts in unmarked to score a header yesterday! They are both honest types, not trying flicks that give the ball away like Paqueta, for all his good qualities. 

There is more to playing up front than scoring loads of goals. Have they made us a better team, and have our results improved with them in the team? Undoubtedly. 

Grafters is exactly what we needed in our predicament. In this position, it’s nearly always the team that runs the most that gives themselves the best chance. 

Ultimately, any striker will always be judged by the amount of goals they score. You won’t survive at a club if you play as a #9 and even a classic #10 and barely score.

No point being Ade Akinbiye: “the best defensive forward in the league.”

He won’t thrive unless he learns how to become a bigger goal threat. But he’s new and we need to give him time.

[Ron Eff]

He’s been poor so far, as a goal threat. Does work hard off the ball, granted. Let’s be honest, most of us wouldn’t have signed him.

We’d have been better off signing one proven £40m striker than two unproven £20+m types (and keeping Wilson, of course).

But he’s one of us now - it’s a big step up for him and we do need to give him some time. As always, I hope he becomes a good player for us. Because he’s West Ham now.


 

I don’t know that I agree with the £40m point. For one we’ve tried that with zero success, but more importantly, both of these two are comfortable dropping deeper with one always playing as the extra midfielder at alternative times to the other, and both have excellent work rate. Dropping in opens up the space that both Summerville and Bowen are benefitting from. Without them occupying the defenders no chance the smallest player on the pitch drifts in unmarked to score a header yesterday! They are both honest types, not trying flicks that give the ball away like Paqueta, for all his good qualities. 

There is more to playing up front than scoring loads of goals. Have they made us a better team, and have our results improved with them in the team? Undoubtedly. 

Grafters is exactly what we needed in our predicament. In this position, it’s nearly always the team that runs the most that gives themselves the best chance. 

[southbankbornnbred]

One thing Pablo has to learn about the Premier League is how quickly he needs to get into the box. Because he’s new, and seems to like to drop deep when we don’t have the ball, he meanders towards the box when we break (Seb Haller-style). Nuno has got to drill it into him that he’s got to get in and around the box quickly.

You don’t get meandering time in the Premier League. Seen Summerville (who is very quick, granted) and Bowen break fast on sides, and look up to find no #9 outlet if Spud is not there. Pablo has to learn to break his back and hit the box faster. Then he’ll get goals. It’s what Wilson does instinctively, even at 34.

[BoleynGone]

I'm not sure he hasn't given the ball away. He has several times, but then tries his hardest to get it back. He is a nuisnance but over the course of the remaining games which the vast majority we have to win it's not going to be enough. Wilson shows what is required in the PL but Nuno would rather use his preferred agents players. Wilson should start and Pablo come on after 60 minutes to use his energy,desire etc. When defenders are tiring then he might get that goal. Hopefully Paco will address this as Nuno can't see much beyond his blow pipe.

[threesixty]

One thing I will say is that none of the players, especially the new signings are losing the ball cheaply in the way Paq and Kudus used to. I think we lost countless goals for that one reason. 

Even if Pablo isn’t prolific in front of goal, not losing the ball and doing basic shit up front is a game changer for us.