Premier league - worlds best league.

[twoleftfeet]

Is it?

5-2
5-2
3-0
1-1
1-1

impressive set of results over 2 evenings.

whoops forgot the 1-0 Liverpool result. 

[Alfs]

Far from best league going by the Forest Fulham game.  Bereft of any quality.

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

I wasn't the one who called you a clown, FYI.

The thing with this idea of a national identity for style of play is that it really only applies to the league as a whole. You look at individual teams at the top level and they play their own game, and have the financial backing to build teams in that style. You mentioned Spanish teams:

Atletico Madrid use proper shithouse tactics: extremely physical, focused on defending, time wasting. Bit like Arsenal.

Barcelona focus on passing and possession, like Man City.

Real Madrid are all about pace and directness and hitting teams on the break, like many English teams over the years.

I'd say that the Madrid teams have more in common with the perceived notion of an English style of play than most of the top Premier League teams do.

[threesixty]

That article (and your own posts on here) would mean absolutely fuck all without the results of one single round of matches. It completely ignores the fact that English teams dominated the group stage (Spurs finished 4th!) and recent years of the competition in general. The ties aren't even over yet. It's just ridiculous knee jerk nonsense.

 

 

Whether it’s right or wrong it’s still a valid observation worth exploring. What I find crazy is you calling me a clown when one of the best journalists in the country is also making a similar point. Kind of says it all really. 

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

That article (and your own posts on here) would mean absolutely fuck all without the results of one single round of matches. It completely ignores the fact that English teams dominated the group stage (Spurs finished 4th!) and recent years of the competition in general. The ties aren't even over yet. It's just ridiculous knee jerk nonsense.

[threesixty]

If more English teams reach the final more than any other country why haven’t they won it more? Statistically they should right? 

For fuck's sake, 360. 2 of the finals were all-English. They can't both win, can they? Out of the 7 English finalists only one lost to a foreign team (Liverpool, both times to Real Madrid). English teams have not done worse than should be expected, by any measure.

There's just nothing here that can be argued about. The only teams who haven't done better than PL teams are those few who are richer than them. Money talks. Not style of play. It's that fucking simple.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... ons-league

I'll just park this here... 

[Massive Attack]

I actually agree with this. English football has become very pragmatic over the years. The more the game moves forward with analytics, data and tactical optimisation, the more controlled and sometimes boring it becomes to watch.
 

For starters I would permanently ban all cunty i-pads on their tripods so everyone on the Bench can gawp over every single minute detail of the game that's actually being played out in front of them if only they could be bothered to pay attention more to the game as modern professionals. Seems almost like a form of cheating to rely on it during games and to apply intense pressure on the Officials over replays etc.

You take more of that shit away and they were told to rely more on brain power and footballing intelligence would we get back to a game that was more off the cuff and special to watch. If this shit was in the game back in 2000 they'd have demanded Di Canio to trap and control his wonder goal instead so to optimise the "Position Of maximum Opportunity".

The Data nerd virgins who have never played Football have successfully managed to infiltrate the beautiful game and taken it over to detrimental effect. 

[John Drake]

There are two separate conversations on here (although one is more of an argument). One is which is the most successful league and the other which is the most entertaining to watch. It depends on how you want to define ‘best’. 

I’m with Fabio on this. The Premier League is boring at the moment and too process driven. Maybe, it’s a cyclical thing, who knows? If the marketing hype continues to deliver huge TV deals what is the incentive to change things? 

I don’t watch many overseas games, but the few Bundesliga matches I have seen (a small sample, I agree) are far more openly contested. The problem they have is the dominance of Bayern when it comes to titles. But for a fan of Stuttgart, for example, does that matter? They are as unlikely to win the title in Germany as West Ham are in England. But they get to see better football.

[stubbo-admin]

I actually agree with this. English football has become very pragmatic over the years. The more the game moves forward with analytics, data and tactical optimisation, the more controlled and sometimes boring it becomes to watch.

Of course there are still some great matches, but when two top teams face each other it often turns into a very cautious game with lots of possession recycling and very little risk-taking.....

It feels like individual flair is slowly being replaced by systems and structure. The era of more open, expressive football seems to be fading a bit unfortunately.

Honestly, out of the big leagues these days I often enjoy watching La Liga and Bundesliga games the most from the top four leagues — they still tend to produce more open matches.

Welcome to the board Fabio!

[El Scorchio]

Agree. When you get too absorbed by data and stats and probabilities to win by any means it leads to stifling low risk regimented one dimensional football.

Funny really- it's exactly the same sort of thing Pulis and Allardyce and their ilk were reviled for doing 20 years ago and it was called agricultural anti football because of who they were and what clubs they were managing.

Now Arteta is doing exactly the same at a club like Arsenal, it's visionary, genius, and a blueprint to be marvelled at and imitated. Fucking ridiculous double standards

[FabioGoaliGreen]

I actually agree with this. English football has become very pragmatic over the years. The more the game moves forward with analytics, data and tactical optimisation, the more controlled and sometimes boring it becomes to watch.

Of course there are still some great matches, but when two top teams face each other it often turns into a very cautious game with lots of possession recycling and very little risk-taking.....

It feels like individual flair is slowly being replaced by systems and structure. The era of more open, expressive football seems to be fading a bit unfortunately.

Honestly, out of the big leagues these days I often enjoy watching La Liga and Bundesliga games the most from the top four leagues — they still tend to produce more open matches.

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

Oh do fuck off. I explained perfectly well why your "theory" was full of shit. You got way more of a contribution than you deserve, you muppet.

[threesixty]

If more English teams reach the final more than any other country why haven’t they won it more? Statistically they should right? 

For fuck's sake, 360. 2 of the finals were all-English. They can't both win, can they? Out of the 7 English finalists only one lost to a foreign team (Liverpool, both times to Real Madrid). English teams have not done worse than should be expected, by any measure.

There's just nothing here that can be argued about. The only teams who haven't done better than PL teams are those few who are richer than them. Money talks. Not style of play. It's that fucking simple.

 

 

Money talks not style of play…

ok.. thanks for your contribution to the discussion. Very enlightening!

[threesixty]

"When I watched PSG last season the ball was just a magnet to their feet. The passing and movement was just streets ahead of any team I’d seen that season"

until they got battered in the final of the world club cup by that English team from West London

 

 

Yeah that was unexpected. And I think there has been a drop off in PSG generally since they won the title. Not sure how serious that tournament was taken though. Lot of football played that season. 

[Takashi Miike]

"When I watched PSG last season the ball was just a magnet to their feet. The passing and movement was just streets ahead of any team I’d seen that season"

until they got battered in the final of the world club cup by that English team from West London

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

If more English teams reach the final more than any other country why haven’t they won it more? Statistically they should right? 

For fuck's sake, 360. 2 of the finals were all-English. They can't both win, can they? Out of the 7 English finalists only one lost to a foreign team (Liverpool, both times to Real Madrid). English teams have not done worse than should be expected, by any measure.

There's just nothing here that can be argued about. The only teams who haven't done better than PL teams are those few who are richer than them. Money talks. Not style of play. It's that fucking simple.

[threesixty]

In their respective leagues Bayern and PSG do not really have another team that is a consistent threat. In La Liga Barca and RM only have one another as a consistent threat.

The PL is different in that respect and the extra level of competitiveness takes its toll on a team the more so at the climax of a season’s work.

It will never happen but just imagine our top teams swapping places with say Barca and Bayern, thus Arsenal to Germany and Man City to Spain. Would a punter back either Barca or Bayern to win the P?

 

 

I think that’s a good point. General fatigue possibly towards the latter stages considering how physical our league is. 

the other side of it is that “iron sharpens iron” and teams like PSG who historically didnt play any truly hard games until they got to the latter stages of the CL ended up falling short until last year. 

When I watched PSG last season the ball was just a magnet to their feet. The passing and movement was just streets ahead of any team I’d seen that season. But would that work week in week out in the PL? I don’t know? Pep sort of did that for a while and then just stopped doing it and went with Halland and a more direct approach. 

it’s interesting to me how the styles in the different leagues are and how that effects the final games in the CL. 

[threesixty]

This is typical of you, 360. You say something utterly stupid and when someone points out why then you don't own up that you made a mistake or exaggerated things, you double down on it.

No-one is not comprehending your posts properly. 

Your quote: "I think prem teams will always find it hard to win the CL"
Reality: PL teams won 3 out of the last 7.

Your quote: "PL teams just get unstuck at the latter stages as the style of play in Spain etc just suits CL style more."
Reality: More PL teams in the final than any other nation, by a large margin. No Spanish team except Real Madrid has reached the final in 10 years.

Your quote: "The point is at the very top of the football tree the playing style matters as well as the money. The PL has far more money than all the other leagues yet has won it 3 times in that period and 2 of those finals were two PL sides competing against each other."
Reality: According to Deloitte there are 4 clubs in the world who are richer than any PL team. These 4 are the ONLY non-English clubs to have reached the final in the last 10 years.

 

 

If more English teams reach the final more than any other country why haven’t they won it more? Statistically they should right? 

So what is the issue then? The PL teams are just unlucky to not win the title considering they seemingly batter everyone else, have more money to pay top players etc, they should have won it more right?

my point is simply the PL has a different style of play than the CL and it shows at the latter stages. it’s a theory. And I think that these last 2 years specifically have shown an even bigger change in the way some of the top teams in the PL are approaching things which I feel will exacerbate the issue. But we will see, I could easily be wrong and they go on to win this season. 

I don’t mind an argument to prove my otherwise, and your stats are also compelling. But how do you explain our lack of success in winning? Or do you think we have just the right amount of success in this competition? 

[,]

In their respective leagues Bayern and PSG do not really have another team that is a consistent threat. In La Liga Barca and RM only have one another as a consistent threat.

The PL is different in that respect and the extra level of competitiveness takes its toll on a team the more so at the climax of a season’s work.

It will never happen but just imagine our top teams swapping places with say Barca and Bayern, thus Arsenal to Germany and Man City to Spain. Would a punter back either Barca or Bayern to win the P?

[Takashi Miike]

the top Spanish teams have about half a dozen tough league games a season, the comparison is pointless as they're playing in a pub league

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

This is typical of you, 360. You say something utterly stupid and when someone points out why then you don't own up that you made a mistake or exaggerated things, you double down on it.

No-one is not comprehending your posts properly. 

Your quote: "I think prem teams will always find it hard to win the CL"
Reality: PL teams won 3 out of the last 7.

Your quote: "PL teams just get unstuck at the latter stages as the style of play in Spain etc just suits CL style more."
Reality: More PL teams in the final than any other nation, by a large margin. No Spanish team except Real Madrid has reached the final in 10 years.

Your quote: "The point is at the very top of the football tree the playing style matters as well as the money. The PL has far more money than all the other leagues yet has won it 3 times in that period and 2 of those finals were two PL sides competing against each other."
Reality: According to Deloitte there are 4 clubs in the world who are richer than any PL team. These 4 are the ONLY non-English clubs to have reached the final in the last 10 years.

[threesixty]

Feels like so many of you didn’t go to school or something. Comprehension is poor!

I said specifically Champions League. In the last 10 years, Spanish teams have won it 6 times! The PL has far more money than all the other leagues yet has won it 3 times in that period and 2 of those finals were two PL sides competing against each other. 

Man City just about got past Inter with a wonder goal from Rodri. 

The point is at the very top of the football tree the playing style matters as well as the money. 

More interestingly, in the last few years we are seeing a PL that is more reliant on set plays, long throws, crowding out keepers at corners etc. tactics that work very well in the PL but I don’t think translate at the highest level. 

I also think peps team has changed its style and no longer dominates the possession with players like silva and aguero in the same way. I think he’s adapted to make City more competitive in the PL but it doesn’t look like it’s working at the highest level in the CL. 

For Chelsea, city, Liverpool and arsenal to have such disappointing results at the same time says a lot. It can’t be just a coincidence. 

[Mike Oxsaw]

You're overlooking one key, non-football driven absolute fact here. Red.

The two most successful (and well marketed) teams in English football both wear red.

Red in East & South East Asia is an auspicious, lucky colour, ingrained into their culture. In their eyes - the eyes of people willing to hand over good money, Liverpool & Manchester United were/are successful because they wear red, not because they have the best players, managers and recruitment processes. Those follow (naturally) because they wear red. They wear red and that's the end of it.

If you've spent time in any of those regions (over and above going on a package tour/running through during your gap year/being a sex tourist) you'd appreciate this.

Once Sky tapped into that (red-driven) market, the money train (for the PL) set off and shows no sign of slowing. Arsenal, you ask? Never interested in east & south east Asia.

Cardiff is it? Play traditionally in blue, called the Bluebirds and their (new) Malaysian owner wanted them to change to a red strip for "luck and prosperity". Wasn't quite rich or powerful enough to pull that one off though.

Perhaps someone will be kind enough to remind me/us what other successful CL teams play in red - could shoot my argument down in flames; I'm having one of those days .

[Takashi Miike]

360, you don't half talk a load of clueless old fanny.

English teams have won 3 out of the last 7 Champions League finals, with 3 different teams!

English teams have had 3 winners and 4 runners up in the last 8 finals. No other nation had more than 3 finalists in these years.

In 2019 and 2021 both finals were all English, as were the Europa League finals in 2019 and 2025.

In direct contrast to the absolute bollocks you came out with, English teams have actually dominated Europe in recent years.

even us and those spurs mugs managed to win a european trophy, 360 is a clown

[John Drake]

If you looked at the last 10 years, then the conclusion would be that Spanish clubs dominated the Champions League with 6 wins to England’s 3. 

The Premier League generates far higher revenues than any other league – almost twice as much as La Liga – but the money is spread around more widely. For that reason, the Premier League has financial strength in depth and is always likely to dominate the Europa League and Conference. 

A recent phenomenon is that English clubs have been knocked from the top of the rich clubs list with Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern and PSG all generating more revenues than the best performing English club (Liverpool in 2025). I wonder if the top English clubs will be looking for a larger slice of EPL pie in order to address this?

[Jean-Luc Paul Goddard]

360, you don't half talk a load of clueless old fanny.

English teams have won 3 out of the last 7 Champions League finals, with 3 different teams!

English teams have had 3 winners and 4 runners up in the last 8 finals. No other nation had more than 3 finalists in these years.

In 2019 and 2021 both finals were all English, as were the Europa League finals in 2019 and 2025.

In direct contrast to the absolute bollocks you came out with, English teams have actually dominated Europe in recent years.